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Flash
Posts: 103
Joined: 2005-12-17
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May someone please explain how the Rating sytem for SWRC tournament events work? RedCell wishes to know. Like how the scores are calculated and such so that we can improve our gameplay along with all other clans.
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=FS= Havick
Posts: 233
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Location: USA
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I find this midly funny coming from RC... Seeing how some of the members have abused that system many times now... Flash - I am though surprised at your respect and attitued I have resently seen. For the scorring system it works like this: skill stats * multipler + game stats = final rating So as an example, here are my last event's scores: Victory ratio / Avg. Points per game / Avg. Enemy points per / Avg. Rating played / Games / Unique Opponents 1.31 + 22.92 + 6.26 = 30.49.. 30.49 * .758 = 23.08093 and 23.08093 + 5.08 + 8.50 = 36.39 Hope that makes since.
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Flash
Posts: 103
Joined: 2005-12-17
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Thanks for the compliment Havick. I have been trying hard lately to earn my respect from the SWRC community and such. I have also been trying to show more maturity towards everyone so looks like its kinda paying off. I honestly didn't need this information but many RC members have been complaining "the ER rating system sucks" and such so I wanted to help them understand it better.
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Flash
Posts: 103
Joined: 2005-12-17
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Wait a second, i think i might have found a problem. Is it better to have more avg. enemy points per game or less?
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NuclearBoBo
Posts: 32
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Location: Canada
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It should be better to have less, but if you add them all together then it's more usefull to have more.
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Fish
Posts: 34
Joined: 2006-01-14
Location: Aloha, Or
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negative the points gained by having the lowest score are added to the rest
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=FS= bprendy
Posts: 1056
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Location: USA
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Why does RedCell always say the scoring system sucks for any event that they do not finish first in??
I don't get it, this system is what was used in BW12 which RedCell placed 1st and has the the EXACT SAME SCORING. The ONLY change was done after the following (http://www.eclipticalrealms.com/warsystem/thread-view.asp?threadid=2944&posts=8) request which was infact made from one of RedCell's members. That request was to lower the average rating played (IE make it count for more) which was done at the request of several RedCell players (and others) who were upset (and rightly so) because TBS noob bashed during DW12 and stole the tourney from them. Going back 8+ events the system was more catered towards teams that played alot, clans spoke up and wanted the standings to reflect more about skill stats and the system was changed but oustide of that it has not changed.
Second Noval Gariant is an ER moderator and has been for several MONTHS, any concerns/questions should be directed to him first (or any other moderator) and if he can't answer them to me. Frankly RC has been with ER for quite some time and as the Game Director I expect more from them and their leaders, I am pretty disapointed that they would let such talk continue and would move to address the issues internally.
Thank you Flash for actually asking the question and trying to get an understanding of the situation instead of just taking the easy path of "we didn't win, the scoring system sucks" and bashing the tourney behind closed doors, very much appreciated..
On a sidenote, nice way to copy my explanation of the system Havick.. hehe, and Fish I have no clue what you are talking about.
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NuclearBoBo
Posts: 32
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Location: Canada
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Please don't assume that we have not contacted Noval. I have personally asked Noval to explain the scoring system to me but have had no answer. As for bashing the system, I never have, I simply wish to understand it.
What Flash was asking was why the average enemy points per game is added on to average points per game, etc., and I believe Fish was saying that it is subtracted.
At least that's what I understood from the post. I'm sorry if I've misunderstood.
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=FS= bprendy
Posts: 1056
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Location: USA
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Bobo I wasn't talking about you.. 
People are always encouraged to ask questions (in a respectful manner) it is odd that you not get a response from someone in your own clan let alone a moderator?? Regardless this is the place to ask such questions. As for the system, Havick's explanation is accurate for how the calculations work, as for Fish's explanation I'm sure what he was saying was important, but I don't think math is his best subject, {joke Fish}.
Do you need further clarification than what Havick provided?
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NuclearBoBo
Posts: 32
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Location: Canada
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Thanks bprendy, but I'm still not clear on a couple of points. Why is the average enemy points per game added to the rest? It makes it seem like it's better to have them higher? Also, what's with the multiplier? I'm just curious to know why that number was chosen.
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=FS= Havick
Posts: 233
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Location: USA
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Hehe, I had this question resently myself, and BP told me what I told you all. :P Bobo, take a look at the ranks for the last event. if you look, the numbers used are the ones in the brackets which are below the number you you have. So if you play 10 games and on avg. you opponets get 8 points... then in caompaired to everyone else's avg. enemy points you are give an amount to add to your rating. So say some else has the lowest avg. enemy points with 3. They would get 25 points in that catgory for that. Now because the other person had 8, he would get w/e that math calulations are for that, so instead of reciving 25 points it would be more like 9 points for that catigory. That is how all stats are worked out, based on everyone else's scores for that event. Hope you are understanding this.
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NuclearBoBo
Posts: 32
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Location: Canada
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Oh I understand now, I've never really bothered to ask what those numbers underneath were. :P I'm still interested, however, to know a little bit more about how the stats are actually calculated.
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Phoenix7015
Posts: 3
Joined: 2005-12-18
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Here are the two problems I have with the ranking system.
1- As a clan, you get points for total matches. This gives clans with more active players a theoretical advantage, whether they take advantage of it or not.
2- The multiplier is based on final rating played, so it includes the total games played stat. This means that by playing overall better opponents, but ones with fewer games played, you could get less points.
If I am wrong about any of this, please tell me.
Also, I have a question. How is Avg. Games per Player calculated?
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NuclearBoBo
Posts: 32
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Location: Canada
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Originally written by NuclearBoBo on 2007-07-23 11:40 PM
Also, what's with the multiplier? I'm just curious to know why that number was chosen.
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-]RC[-Young Link
Posts: 34
Joined: 2007-05-30
Location: England
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and thats the way the cookie crumbles
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Flash
Posts: 103
Joined: 2005-12-17
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that is how it is calculated. like for example. bobo you have the following stats:
Victory ratio = 10.2 / Avg. Points per game = 9.8 / Avg. Enemy points per = 7.5 / Avg. Rating played = 32 / Games = 58/ Unique Opponents = 24
so to calculate your rating you would:
10.2 + 9.8 + 7.5 = 25.5 X .75 = 19.125 and 19.125 + 5.8 and 2.4 =27.325
i think that is how it works, you just switch the decimals around in some spots (i think)
Would that be how it works because I am still kind of confused. Are there set multiplyers to find out how to get the players final calculation or something?
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Flash
Posts: 103
Joined: 2005-12-17
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BTW is it better to have higher or lower enemy points per game? i didnt really understand the answers given.
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NuclearBoBo
Posts: 32
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Location: Canada
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Originally written by DS_Havick on 2007-07-24 12:03 AM
Hehe, I had this question resently myself, and BP told me what I told you all. :P Bobo, take a look at the ranks for the last event. if you look, the numbers used are the ones in the brackets which are below the number you you have. So if you play 10 games and on avg. you opponets get 8 points... then in caompaired to everyone else's avg. enemy points you are give an amount to add to your rating. So say some else has the lowest avg. enemy points with 3. They would get 25 points in that catgory for that. Now because the other person had 8, he would get w/e that math calulations are for that, so instead of reciving 25 points it would be more like 9 points for that catigory. That is how all stats are worked out, based on everyone else's scores for that event. Hope you are understanding this.
But Havick seems to be saying that the numbers used are the ones underneath, which are calculated based on everybody else's stats. That's what I'm interested to find out more about. I understand the rest of it.
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NuclearBoBo
Posts: 32
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Location: Canada
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Originally written by Flash on 2007-07-24 6:50 PM
BTW is it better to have higher or lower enemy points per game? i didnt really understand the answers given.
Basically, the numbers used are the ones underneath the actually statistics. From what I've understood, they are calculated based on everyone else's stats. So if you have lower average enemy points per game, the number used is higher.
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=FS= bprendy
Posts: 1056
Joined: 2005-06-08
Location: USA
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Think of each category as its own stats.. This is how the systems works today we are in discussion about changing components of this as I am most displeased at the noob bashing that I am seeing. I have seen some good posts on this topic, however I will attempt to clarify this further, because I haven't seen anyone quite answer this fully.
If you don't like math stop reading now.. This explanation assumes the person has played in the requirements to be ranked. For example, W/L Ratio.. It is worth Max of 25 points. Any player who is ranked can get those points, however the person who will get the full 25 is the person the person with the highest W/L ratio (this number quite simply your wins divided by your losses). For example a person who was 10-5 would have W/L ratio of 2. If you were 5-10 your W/L ratio would be 0.5. The other categories are pretty self explanatory. Continuing with W/L ratio, the person who has the best get full points (25). So in BW 13 that was Venom with a W/L of 64. He received 25 points, the person with the lowest W/L ration which is often 0 receives 1 point. Everyone else receives points from 1-25 based on their W/L as compared to 64 and 0. For example Flash was around 31 which is roughly 1/2 of 64, this explains why Flash received 12.62 points (31 is 1/2 of 64 (approx) and 12.61 is roughly 1/2 of 25. All of the categories work this way.. Lebron had the most matches 118 (he receives full points for that category 10, Havick had 59 matches (roughly 1/2 of Lebron he received 5.09 points in that area.
The Average Rating PlayedOk your points earned from skill stats, (W/L, Average Points, and Average Points against) are multiplied against a ratio to determine your net skill points. The multiplier ratio was .70-1.00 but was changed to .60-1.00. The average rating played is the average rating of the people you have played.. For example, assume I played only 10 matches last BW. To make the math simplier, all of them were 2 v 2 vs RC Flash and RC MadCat. Flash's final rating was around 45 and MadCats final rating was around 35. Because I played in an equal number of matches with both players my average rating played would be 40 (this would change if I played other people or played Flash more than MadCat). Assume someone else Havick played only lower ranking players and his average rating played was 5. Lets also say that 40 and 5 were the highest and lowest average ratings played for the entire tourney. Therefore, I would have a multiplier of 1.00 and his multiplier would be .60. To determine our skill points you would add points earned for (W/L + APPG + AEPPG) * multiplier. Lets say that Havick got max points for all skills stats (25+25+25) * .60 = 45 points. Lets say I had average skills stats (15+15+15) * 1.00 = 45 points. Our skill points would then be added to (Points earned for unique opponents (max 15) and games played (max 10) to determine our final scores. So using this example you see that Havick loses 40% of his skill points for playing low ranked players, and I would get the same amount of final skill points by having "decent" skill stats. The rest of the players in the tourney would have their multiplier determined by were their average rating played fell between 5 and 40, so if Sam's was 22 he's multiplier would be around .8
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=FS= bprendy
Posts: 1056
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Location: USA
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Originally written by Phoenix7015 on 2007-07-24 4:01 PM
Here are the two problems I have with the ranking system.1- As a clan, you get points for total matches. This gives clans with more active players a theoretical advantage, whether they take advantage of it or not.2- The multiplier is based on final rating played, so it includes the total games played stat. This means that by playing overall better opponents, but ones with fewer games played, you could get less points.If I am wrong about any of this, please tell me.Also, I have a question. How is Avg. Games per Player calculated? 1. Yes you are correct, but the points given to a club for total matches played is only 10 points max. So it only 1/10 of the total possible points that you could earn. 75% of the points are from skill stats which is what everyone asked for last time we changed the system. In the big picture 10/100 is very small amount, and I would say everyone has a chance to get these 10 points..
2. huh? I'm not sure what the question is??
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Phoenix7015
Posts: 3
Joined: 2005-12-18
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As far as I can tell, This is the formula for points based on total games played.
(((GamesPersonX-10)/(Most Games-10))*9)+1 =Points (for PersonX)
For example, in BW 13, Venom and Lebron (with the most games)
(((65-10)/(118-10))*9)+1 =5.58333 points for Venom
I can't figure the others out >.<
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=FS= Havick
Posts: 233
Joined: 2006-01-22
Location: USA
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You guys are just thinking about it too much. It's not that difficult and complext. lol
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NuclearBoBo
Posts: 32
Joined: 2006-03-02
Location: Canada
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I understand it now, thanks for the full explanation.
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-]RC[-Young Link
Posts: 34
Joined: 2007-05-30
Location: England
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i think i need a ninja
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Fish
Posts: 34
Joined: 2006-01-14
Location: Aloha, Or
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hehe, and Fish I have no clue what you are talking about.
Someone thought that having a higer points allowed was worth more points and I was trying to explain that the points gained by having a low average points allowed were added to the rest of your skill points, not the actuall points allowed. Sorry if my wording is stil unclear but im fairly confident im correct.
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=FS= bprendy
Posts: 1056
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Location: USA
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Yes "lower average points allowed" (AKA Average Enemy Points Per Game in BW or Average Flags Lost in DW) is good. I just never heard it called that..
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Fish
Posts: 34
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Location: Aloha, Or
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Thats why I get paid the big bucks BP I think outside of the conventional box. 
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