Posts: 14
Joined: 2006-08-16
User Profile just a heads up, MotR's best Euro and best US players have been banned. They were given no warning, no due process, and limited explanation with no proof. Unless further explanation is given, it is MotR's plan to boycott the next tourny. While this matter should be solved privately, i would like it to be public knowledge why we may not participate in the next event. Good luck to the rest of ya.
-LEPUBE
Posts: 1056
Joined: 2005-06-08
Location: USA
User Profile Will respond to this tonite.
Posts: 1056
Joined: 2005-06-08
Location: USA
User Profile Lepube,
Thank you for your comments.. While I don't feel the need to debate this issue publicly... I do feel the need to inform you and your clanmates of a few things that you should be aware of before you come on to these forums and attack the mods, ER and me.
First Avelyn, was frozen from the next tourney for submitting over 10 duplicate matches during this event. He also had submitted numerious forfeits (which we never have permitted). After the event conclude, I personally contacted him and asked him to provide screenshots for each match he reported, b/c as I was reviewing matches I found all sorts of oddities with his reported matches. It was at this time (AFTER the event had ended) that Avelyn informed me that he had made some mistakes reporting his matches, and all of the duplicates {I believe his PM had 6-7, and I found another 3-4} were ACCIDENTS. I'm sorry Lepube, but maybe this is ok with you but it is not ok for me. Let me ask you this if someone in DS or RedCell submitted duplicate matches (wins) against your clan how would you react? Is this behavior that we would want to have here? Had Avelyn come to me during the event after he "accidently submitted the extra 10 matches" there would not have been a problem and he would be permitted to play. So basically his arguement was that he played in serveral matches, reported them and "someguy" told him that stats updated every 2 hours. (odd that this occurred on the last day of the event and he had played all prior 6 days without this happen). When he didn't see his matches (in his stats) he reported them again. So let me ask you this Lepube, if he realized his matches weren't calculated in his stats, why didn't he contact a moderator when he realized he had "duplicate/extra matches"??? Does this make sense to you Lepube? As I said had he contacted a moderator at the time this would have been addressed however he did not.. I guess he hoped that we would overlook this. Frankly he is QUITE likely to be allowed to return to ER after sitting out one event, and I assure you and anyone else that if he does anything like this again he will not be welcome back period. All in all, I spent almost 3 hours just dealing with issues related to Avelyn this BW, is that fair? Should I have to look at everyone of his matches to make sure that they are reported accurately?
Furthermore, I discussed this matter with your Captain Fish and he agreed with the decision. So I suggest you check with him prior to making such an uninformed post.
Secondly, regarding Lebron.... Is it acceptable in your house to tell someone to go f. their own mother, among other things? By Lebron's own admission this is not the first time that he has broken this rule.
Originally written by Lebron on 2007-09-24 1:50 AM
Contrary to what you wrote in your post, Lebron had been warned about this on atleast two occassions {lesser offences} by me and asked to correct his behavior. He did not comply with my request and based on what I saw this time he has decided to take it to the next level.
In closing, I would again suggest you check with your captain before coming onto these forums making accussations. If MotR chooses not to play that is certainly their choice. However if these players are so critical to your club (as your post indicated), I would recommend that your clan advise them {and anyone else} to respect the rules and there will be no problems. Other clubs have had players frozen from prior vents, and they have decided to play. If MotR decides to proceed in this matter that would tell the RC community as a whole how your clan deals with authority. Not to mention you would be punishing the other members of MotR as they would not be permitted to play.
-bp
Posts: 53
Joined: 2005-06-10
Location: Virginia Beach
User Profile Byaaah!
Posts: 21
Joined: 2006-07-23
Location: Your Mom's Va-J-J
User Profile I swore in spanish as a joke. It wasn't like i just went up to him for no reason and said F your mother...
Posts: 14
Joined: 2006-08-16
User Profile alright BP, i appreciate your effort here i really do. however i think theres more to it.
As far as Avelyn is concerned please bare in mind that while Avelyn speaks minor english, he is hardly fluent in it. The first problem you adressed in this was his submitting of duplicate matches. Please bare in mind that for someone who put a lot of effort in to this event to see that his matches arent reporting gets worrysome. Esoecially for someone who is perhaps not able to read everything on the website correctly. I see how this is a problem, but i feel it was a misunderstanding not a blantant infraction of the rules. You also mentioned the submitting of "numerous forfeits" which, you saidd "we never have permitted", Please try to remember last BW where pretty much the same misunderstanding occured. Why should avelyn be so heavily punished for a mistake that has been made before. Also, do you know why he even submitted forfiets in the first place? Perhaps knowing that will help you to understand that he felt like he had been wronged.
With lebron, I understand that people have told you that he has cussed but it would be nice to see an SS of this particular instance. As it happens we have an SS of kole breaking this same "no swearing" rule, if you would like to see it, we can send it in but i'd rather not have to go into all that. The other problem i see here, is that in speaking to lebron, it is my understanding that he used this phrase after a certain clan "black-balled" MotR by refusing to play with Toast, one of our stronger players. It seems that lebron like avelyn may have been wronged and broke a rule in retaliation.
While it is obviously your decision as to whether these players be removed from the next event i feel if these people are removed there are others that must also be removed from future events. I dont want this to happen and i dont think you do either but, fair is fair.
Overall i think that while its harder to justify lebrons acceptance back in to the tourny, i think if he goes down there may be others that must go down with him. But for Avelyn i feel like his case was purely a misunderstanding and should be treated as such. The rules are in place to punish those who blantantly break rules, not those who accidently make a mistake regarding them.
As a final note i would like you to know that i do not discuss any matters with fish regarding this game. Fish has shown me on multiple times that he can be manipulative, and while i like the guy i don not necessarily trust him.
P.S. I also would like to see MotR have some representation in ER, I know this has been discussed before and i would like to continue to persue this endevour. Considering Noval has just left i definitly think that we need more diversity in the moderation team. I am personally interested in taking the position so if you could discuss that with me that would be great
Posts: 53
Joined: 2005-06-10
Location: Virginia Beach
User Profile It seems that lebron like avelyn may have been wronged and broke a rule in retaliation.
So its okay to break rules only in retaliation? First off what should have been done was to contact a mod since they both felt they had been wronged. Let the moderator sort it out and not take matters in your own hands. In the grand scheme of things they have only hurt themselves and their clan.
I understand that Avelyn speaks very little english. Please give him this link: http://www.google.com/language_tools
This way he will be able to translate the rules of Bactaweek/Deltaweek so that he may understand them in detail for future use.
Posts: 14
Joined: 2006-08-16
User Profile ^^ I never claimed it was ok that they broke rules, im just saying other people broke rules too.
Posts: 1
Joined: 2007-05-11
Location: Oulu
User Profile Yea I study english but very little and besides its British english not american english, so its pretty... weird you ban me from next DW for that reason my english sucks. Well thats not reason for ban but its reason for my mistakes. Same than i ask americans study 2 years finnish language and then they need to understand all. And it was actually without warning that i dident post those screenies from forfit matches. And LeBron get ban for swearing. If that is reason you should ban all from RC (well not all). Or was there something else for my ban than that i made few mistakes. If you go see MotR clan euro sector there is message i can make few things wrong.
Posts: 259
Joined: 2006-06-13
Location: Iselin, NJ
User Profile alright BP, i appreciate your effort here i really do. however i think theres more to it.
As far as Avelyn is concerned please bare in mind that while Avelyn speaks minor english, he is hardly fluent in it. The first problem you adressed in this was his submitting of duplicate matches. Please bare in mind that for someone who put a lot of effort in to this event to see that his matches arent reporting gets worrysome. Esoecially for someone who is perhaps not able to read everything on the website correctly. I see how this is a problem, but i feel it was a misunderstanding not a blantant infraction of the rules. You also mentioned the submitting of "numerous forfeits" which, you saidd "we never have permitted", Please try to remember last BW where pretty much the same misunderstanding occured. Why should avelyn be so heavily punished for a mistake that has been made before. Also, do you know why he even submitted forfiets in the first place? Perhaps knowing that will help you to understand that he felt like he had been wronged.
With lebron, I understand that people have told you that he has cussed but it would be nice to see an SS of this particular instance. As it happens we have an SS of kole breaking this same "no swearing" rule, if you would like to see it, we can send it in but i'd rather not have to go into all that. The other problem i see here, is that in speaking to lebron, it is my understanding that he used this phrase after a certain clan "black-balled" MotR by refusing to play with Toast, one of our stronger players. It seems that lebron like avelyn may have been wronged and broke a rule in retaliation.
While it is obviously your decision as to whether these players be removed from the next event i feel if these people are removed there are others that must also be removed from future events. I dont want this to happen and i dont think you do either but, fair is fair.
Overall i think that while its harder to justify lebrons acceptance back in to the tourny, i think if he goes down there may be others that must go down with him. But for Avelyn i feel like his case was purely a misunderstanding and should be treated as such. The rules are in place to punish those who blantantly break rules, not those who accidently make a mistake regarding them.
As a final note i would like you to know that i do not discuss any matters with fish regarding this game. Fish has shown me on multiple times that he can be manipulative, and while i like the guy i don not necessarily trust him.
P.S. I also would like to see MotR have some representation in ER, I know this has been discussed before and i would like to continue to persue this endevour. Considering Noval has just left i definitly think that we need more diversity in the moderation team. I am personally interested in taking the position so if you could discuss that with me that would be great
This is just ridiculous ... As a former member of MotR and a member of this community, I would like you to take into account that it is not up to you what you do. If you do not like fish, that is great, but his decision in MotR is higher than yours. Also, you have UT to talk to, and don't tell me that he is hard to get in touch with because I talk to him very frequently.
Also, the rules here are made to be enforced, not broken. If you don't like them, too bad. You can take all the ss's in the world, but if you do not report it, then that is your mistake: not BP's or any of the other mod's.
And as far as representation here, you must put that past Fish as well, seeing as you would represent all of MotR, and not just you and your friends. And as far as the "black-balling", there is no rule that members have to play a match that they don't want to; It's called tactics, get over it.
Im going to agree with BP and the mods here, while they try to accomodate everyone, thats just not reality, and while i feel bad for the person that does not speak english very well, if you remember, {MotR}Death was Finnish as well, and it was not too tough for him to play here.
If you have any problems with my post, come and see me personally.
Posts: 233
Joined: 2006-01-22
Location: USA
User Profile Conversation started between =FS= Havick and {MotR}Avelyn{EurSgt}: Tue, Sep 18 22:25:59 2007
[22:25] {MotR}Avelyn{EurSgt}: can you help one guy in BW match?
[22:26] =FS= Havick: No
[22:26] =FS= Havick: PLease read the ER borads btw
[22:26] {MotR}Avelyn{EurSgt}: borads?
[22:26] {MotR}Avelyn{EurSgt}: Oh deary me! are them?
[22:26] =FS= Havick: The forums...
[22:27] {MotR}Avelyn{EurSgt}: i am not guy who usually is in forums
[22:27] =FS= Havick: You need to be
[22:27] {MotR}Avelyn{EurSgt}: what for?
[22:27] =FS= Havick: For the amount of non-listed member matches you continue to sumbit
[22:28] =FS= Havick: submit*
[22:28] =FS= Havick: http://www.eclipticalrealms.com/warsystem/thread-view.asp?threadid=3371&posts=2
[22:28] {MotR}Avelyn{EurSgt}: i did that wrong and admin deleted all those matches but now...
[22:29] =FS= Havick: You are suppose to check if all player in the match are registated at ER...
[22:29] =FS= Havick: it's a rule
[22:29] =FS= Havick: and you're ovbiously braking it.
[22:29] {MotR}Avelyn{EurSgt}: but i said in match notes who was non-listed member
[22:29] =FS= Havick: The non listed member feture is a bakc up, not a crutch
[22:30] =FS= Havick: You realize that the mods have to ediat all those matches now?
[22:30] {MotR}Avelyn{EurSgt}: i speak very badly english and i understand it more badly
[22:30] =FS= Havick: Ok, at ER. I am a mod
[22:31] =FS= Havick: yes?
[22:31] {MotR}Avelyn{EurSgt}: yea
[22:31] =FS= Havick: Bp is also a mod
[22:31] {MotR}Avelyn{EurSgt}: and vash too
[22:31] =FS= Havick: the two of use have to move all the non listed members from your matches to their club cpt.
[22:31] =FS= Havick: Yes Vash.
[22:32] {MotR}Avelyn{EurSgt}: ow i tought i tis enaugh if i just put that non-listed member name
[22:32] =FS= Havick: Yes, it is. But in the amount of games you have, It's not any more.
[22:33] =FS= Havick: No on else has sumbited matches in the number you have wiht non listed members
[22:34] {MotR}Avelyn{EurSgt}: but how GG can have over 30 non-listed member?
[22:34] =FS= Havick: They are not listed on ER... I don't know why.
[22:34] =FS= Havick: But they should be
[22:34] =FS= Havick: But becuase they are not, you should not play them,
[22:34] {MotR}Avelyn{EurSgt}: ow sry i keep that in my mind
[22:35] =FS= Havick: Thanks
[22:35] {MotR}Avelyn{EurSgt}: my points are going to delete?
[22:36] =FS= Havick: No
[22:36] {MotR}Avelyn{EurSgt}: kk
[22:36] =FS= Havick: What language do you speak?
[22:36] {MotR}Avelyn{EurSgt}: finland
[22:36] {MotR}Avelyn{EurSgt}: lol
[22:36] =FS= Havick: lol...
[22:36] {MotR}Avelyn{EurSgt}: but i dont think you can speak it =)
[22:38] =FS= Havick: hmm
[22:38] {MotR}Avelyn{EurSgt}: you know much about ER i think
[22:38] =FS= Havick: Yes, I am a mod here =)
[22:38] {MotR}Avelyn{EurSgt}: well then i think you know how answer in this....
[22:38] {MotR}Avelyn{EurSgt}: if lose two matches how many points can lose?
[22:39] =FS= Havick: it's based on who you play
[22:39] =FS= Havick: and how much you lose by
[22:39] {MotR}Avelyn{EurSgt}: yea
[22:40] {MotR}Avelyn{EurSgt}: like if i lose vs some who dont got lots ER points i lose points more?
[22:40] =FS= Havick: Yes
[22:41] =FS= Havick: But if you played someone ranked such as I am, and lost you would probably not lose a lot of points
[22:41] {MotR}Avelyn{EurSgt}: are you good ranked then?
[22:41] =FS= Havick: fairly well
[22:41] =FS= Havick: 14
[22:41] =FS= Havick: Would you like a match? a 2v2 I only have one partner
[22:42] {MotR}Avelyn{EurSgt}: on the other hand i could but school begins in 30 min
[22:42] {MotR}Avelyn{EurSgt}: and i have to do homeworks what i got only one page
[22:42] {MotR}Avelyn{EurSgt}: =)
[22:42] =FS= Havick: aww ok
Conversation ended: Tue, Sep 18 22:49:06 2007
Seems to me that he understood it. I made a point to get in contact with him. Yet, he continued to submit these matches...
But not only have we explained everything publicly here; it should NOT have have had to be that way. Frankly Lepube you don't have any business in dealing with these matters. You are not a game or club cpt. here at ER and have to my knowledge been decleaired so in MotR. Mods do not have to publicly explain each pushishment handed down... As Bp said, you would not be so up in arms if it was anyone else. But because these two seemed to rank fairly well you seem to have a problem with it.
Posts: 34
Joined: 2006-01-14
Location: Aloha, Or
User Profile I do believe that Avelyn made an honest mistake but the submitting of that many duplicate matchs forces the hands of the mods I fully suport Bp's decision concerning Avelyn....
Posts: 53
Joined: 2005-06-10
Location: Virginia Beach
User Profile Thank you Fish. I agree with you, he could have made a honest mistake. I have made honest mistakes before. One day I was driving down the road and ran threw a red light. I didn't mean too. I made a honest mistake, that is what I told the Officer who pulled me over after that and slapped me with a 120 dollar ticket. That sucked but I paid for it. The moral of this story is, sometimes we have to just take personal responsibility for our actions. Own up to your mistakes and you will be better for it in the future.
Posts: 14
Joined: 2006-08-16
User Profile thanks for the replys, next time please read my whole posts not just respond to the first two sentences.
@ Wayne- Have a whole thing typed up to you just let me know how to contact you.
@ Havick- i clearly stated in my first post that i thought the matter should be adressed privately.
You are right in thinking i wouldnt care if it was someone else. But i do care because they are my team mates and in MotR we stick together.
Also i never asked for a public explanation i said that we would like a further explaination in private.
@six- yeah i know life isnt fair, but wouldnt you have liked that cop to just say "hey i know you made a mistake, I'll let you go, please dont let it happen next time or i will have to give you a ticket"
Owning up to mistakes and being punished for them dont have to be related.
This was meant to be an informative thread, it wasnt meant for flaming, i'm sry that it resulted this way. If its just going to cause more problems please lock it and PM me about MotR's future representation in ER, i know we'd feel more confident if we had a mod in our clan.
Posts: 7
Joined: 2006-03-07
User Profile Six has the right idea. If you're driving along and you hit a person crossing the street; let's say you were getting your coffee from the tray, you are charged for manslaughter.
Murder is issued on three levels. 1st degree when you intentionally and plannedly murder another human.
2nd degree when you unintentionally murder someone but with a motivatory cause. ie: in a fight, road rage, etc.
Manslaughter is the accidental murder of another human being. You are still charged for it and you won't walk. It's an accident, but not something tolerable.
Just a little lesson. I support Bprendy's decision because it seems to be fair, and had it happened to any other clan member, FS included. It would be only right to do.
While I just found out about this recently, and was shown what had actually been said between Lebron and the ER player who I will leave anonymous, I must say, I've never been so disgusted with how foul a person could be. I don't mean it offensively, but when people swear, it's a little more acceptable. But when something that completely disrespectful is said... That's a different level. And something no one would tolerate. I think the person who this was said against, while angry and showing it fairly clearly, did not "retaliate" or provoke or even respond to this in any equally or even close of a manner of disrespect and insult. It was just too far, and to address the unfairness of it all. I don't think any of the punishments are unfair. After multiple infractions and warning, you should take responsibility for what you've done. And Lepube you should understand that the punishments dealt were fair and unbiased and would have been given to any person under the same circumstance.
It's unfortunate that two of your top players have been banned, but MotR as a whole should accept what has happened, and take responsibility to avoid it from recurring. Not try to weasel out of it. Should you choose to boycott the next tournaments. No one will stop you. It would just seem a shame that such a strong challenger should not be present.
Posts: 1
Joined: 2006-08-21
User Profile So if I read this correct you are trying to use the threat and pressure of a boycott to bully your way into a mod position? The whole problem with the Rc community is the bickering and fighting between clans. It is also about the way people talk to one another. There is no excuse to be rude or to flame another's mother. It is to bad that Avelyn made a mistake, but he will serve a small punishment and get on with it. You threaten the ER community and Rc community with talk of a boycott and demands of a mod position. That does not help the Rc community, and if another clan drops out of participation the Rc community might really start to dry up. Instead of threats and accusations why do we all not work on fixing what little bit of commnity is left. Everyone knows the rules about language. Why is it so hard to abide by these? Also why is it so hard to be polite to other people during tournaments? If someone doesnt want to play, so waht. Walk away and find another match. Big deal, end of story.
Posts: 1056
Joined: 2005-06-08
Location: USA
User Profile Lepube you just don't get it...